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jefferoo
03-19-2008, 09:43 AM
http://byrev.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/george-w-bush-1.jpg

... thanks to this man.

I was on cnn.com today and reading these two headlines next to eachother...

Poll: Most think Iraq spending hurts economy (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/poll.iraq.economy/index.html)
Gas price spike has only just begun (http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/10/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes)

... just gave me a feeling of dread.

I'm no stranger to disappointment over current events, but today for some reason, I feel particularly pessimistic. We are really in a not so good spot with the economy/oil/war crisis.
Even though they can be considered separate issues, I think that the country should start looking at it as one large issue that is defined by these symptoms:
-we are in an expensive (and unwinnable) war with no clear definition that arguably was started as a means to secure oil resources for our country's consumption.
-the value of our currency is steadily declining, as is our esteem in the global economy... quite possibly as a direct result of the prior symptom.
-nearly every single American is dependent on oil in some capacity.
-the transition between oil and the use of alternative energy/etc sources will take more time and money than would be ideal.
-too many Americans are either too complacent, apathetic or just plain stupid to realize not only that there needs to be a change but that they can change these circumstances with their own actions.

I fear that things will keep getting worse and worse.

Sorry guys. I'm in a gloomy mood today.

Mutineer
03-19-2008, 09:47 AM
Good thing I'm never going to get a car!

thugginit
03-19-2008, 11:49 AM
you also forgot:
china completely owns the US... a ton of bonds the us has sold to them to fund the war, trade deficit, future growth, a ton of more reasons
the next president (most likely a democrat) is totally screwed and will take the fall for all of the garbage that started under the bush administration and we'll probably end up voting in someone even worse than bush in 2012...Carter to Reagan in the 80s pretty much sums up the situation

GoldenGiven
03-19-2008, 12:11 PM
ahh, yes. securing the oil resources BEFORE a democratic election(in iraq) was the key. our ace-in-the-hole really is "the golden strait-jacket", the tighter the fit the more gold it produces. just ask the country of Argentina.

DateGrapes
03-19-2008, 02:46 PM
my secret to happiness is i never think about those things!

hahaha wheeeeeeeeeeeeee everything's fine right guys haha RIGHT HAHAHAHA

Aqualad
03-19-2008, 04:28 PM
they say at some point in the next few years we could see barrels of oil costing 200$. This stupid warfare and this stupid welfare has cost us a lot. I can't blame it all on Bush because the checks we're supposed to have against him(congress) has done nothing to stop the imbalance of power. But I can understand that they are ambitious, and the completely bizarro world we have now rewards people who keep their mouth shut and endorse the current policy. And even now we are propagating it by cheering three more politicians who represent the status quo.

You can't really consider the economy and the war separate issues. Not when it costs us so much. I like what Thomas jefferson said, and I think it would have spared republicans all this crap, and that's that we have an amendment saying the government could not borrow.

But yeah, it's easy to see where the economy is headed, just watch all the people pulling all their investments out of the bank, the price of gold and silver rising fast, and the banks seeking 700 billion dollar rescues from the government for their own mistakes(well, some blame goes to the federal reserve for its policies on easy credit and such in the 90s).

Captain Insano
03-20-2008, 10:11 AM
vote Nader

funeralpudding
03-20-2008, 10:19 AM
vote Nader

Because all of Texas's electoral votes in 2000 were a lock for Bush, I campaigned and voted for Nader. Not this year. There is a thin margin between Obama, a major candidate as progressive as any have been since Carter, and Clinton, a Republican in Democratic ladies wear. In light of this, it blows my mind that Nader would have the gall to enter at this point. I won't dismiss arguments calling for ineffectual third party votes if you vote with your mind and conscience, but right now, at this time in our history, fuck you, Mr. Nader.

jefferoo
03-20-2008, 10:24 AM
Because all of Texas's electoral votes in 2000 were a lock for Bush, I campaigned and voted for Nader. Not this year. There is a thin margin between Obama, a major candidate as progressive as any have been since Carter, and Clinton, a Republican in Democratic ladies wear. In light of this, it blows my mind that Nader would have the gall to enter at this point. I won't dismiss arguments calling for ineffectual third party votes if you vote with your mind and conscience, but right now, at this time in our history, fuck you, Mr. Nader.

EXACTLY!!!

http://www.collegecandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/barack__obama.jpg

hockywierdo
03-20-2008, 05:19 PM
recession is part of a cycle and no matter what war were in or anything there is still gonna be recession especially because of globalization and cause we cant be the dominant country in the world economy anymore.

it isnt possible. the economy is gonna dip a little war or no war and were gonna decline as a country even if we get out of war and stuff.

none the less were gonna go down either way, under either party.

Aqualad
03-20-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm getting pretty apathetic about this election.

jefferoo
03-20-2008, 08:29 PM
Mike Gravel is still in the race. The stubborn old buzzard. That's kinda awesome. Check out the picture that cnn.com has for him.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/ELECTION/2008/candidates/images/09/215x280/gravel.jpg

I can imagine the noise he's making.

Aqualad
03-21-2008, 07:45 AM
yeah, him and ron paul are the only reason to care about this election, i would say.

Aqualad
03-21-2008, 10:48 AM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks

oh well

funeralpudding
03-21-2008, 12:03 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks

oh well

"Hillary Clinton isn't about to give up just because she lost the election." soooooo true.

But seriously, anybody aware of the ChoicePoint theft of 2000, the voter caging scandal of 2004, or the many many problems with Diebold's accuracy is at least a little worried.

But c'mon Aqualad, you're now realistically left with Obama, Clinton, or McCain as the next president. If you can't single out Obama as the only candidate who will bring about any kind of real change from our current politics you're not paying attention.

Aqualad
03-21-2008, 12:35 PM
lol... well when he tells me what change he wants to bring i'll listen

thugginit
03-22-2008, 04:31 PM
maybe if you were listening you'd see the change he wants to bring?
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

stompclapclap
03-22-2008, 05:07 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/black_guy_asks_nation_for_change

Aqualad
03-22-2008, 11:17 PM
maybe if you were listening you'd see the change he wants to bring?
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

you call that change? He's asking to expand government even more... nothing new at all.

Gin And Jews
03-23-2008, 10:16 AM
who cares? whoever wins is going to be a much better president than bush. even mccain.

and yeah, both hilary and obama are pretty vague with...well.. everything.

funeralpudding
03-23-2008, 11:41 AM
who cares? whoever wins is going to be a much better president than bush. even mccain.

and yeah, both hilary and obama are pretty vague with...well.. everything.

Not true, especially when it comes to defense. It seems every candidate but Obama is willing to talk in the vague Bush "terrorist" rhetoric, including mentioning Al Qaeda and Iraq as many times as possible in the same sentence to create the perception that Al Qaeda is really in Iraq. Obama has the (specific) fortitude to say that if Bin Laden's Al Qaeda is in Pakistan, we'll go into Pakistan and get them. Which is why so many military personnel and generals support Obama, he's willing to cut through the bullshit with specifics.

It's not too hard to go to his web page, either, and inform yourself before throwing sheets of "vagueness" over his name.

Gin And Jews
03-23-2008, 03:00 PM
he's vague. that's what all politicians are supposed to do. he can't be too specific now b/c he might lose votes. he gives everyone a good idea of what he wants to do but can't go too far into the specifics. i'm not ragging on him for doing it. don't get me wrong, i still think he's the best candidate available, but he's still vague. I didn't mean to sound like that big of an asshole when i said that, i just start to get pissed all politicians after so long b/c of the very nature of their job. except kucinich. i love kucinich.

funeralpudding
03-23-2008, 03:10 PM
There's no doubt the debates were better when Edwards was there to push things a bit more. But it also allowed Obama to come out publicly for a couple of things where he and Hillary differ, such as government transparency. Obama has called for C-Span televised hearings on important matters such as meetings to decide our nation's energy policy. This is of course in sharp contrast to the Cheney energy meetings of 2000 where 40+ meetings were held with oil company executives like Ken Lay, and despite GAO protests and a court order to turn them over, the minutes of those meetings were never released. Not too much cynicism is required to say the plans for war with Iraq were being laid at these meetings, and Obama is one of the only presidential candidates to speak publicly about them and condemn them. Obama also has specific plans for lobbyist reform and to ensure that every government dollar coming in or out is accounted for.

Hillary has hesitated in talking about transparency, especially since as soon as she brings it up she will be forced to finally reveal her tax returns that she has been hiding throughout this entire campaign.

Aqualad
03-24-2008, 08:43 PM
no better place to put this. kinda funny

http://www.islandpacket.com/opinion/columns/will/story/261682.html

Aqualad
03-25-2008, 06:18 PM
http://www.lp.org/media/article_572.shtml

dun dun dun