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CavortingChicken
11-20-2007, 08:57 AM
www.teaparty07.com

Sry in advance for posting politics again, but this has to be taken in. Check out this bill that was just passed by the House.


http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=4682


Does anyone know where we are on this "checklist to losing democracy"?

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and (or) external threat
2. Create a secret prison system where torture takes place and military tribunals
3. Create a paramilitary force (Blackwater)
4. Create a surveillance apparatus aimed at ordinary citizens
5. Arbitrarily detain and release citizens
6. Target key individuals (press, academics, entertainers)
7. Restrict the press
8. Infiltrate citizens groups
9. Dissent = treason
10. Declare martial law


WWW.TEAPARTY07.COM

Aqualad
11-20-2007, 09:31 AM
that is one serious bill. I'm really excited about the next big fundraising day, though. Ron Paul is already nearly at 9 million. Another day like nov 5th will put him well over his goal. There are already almost as much people registered for this one as that one(if not more).

Also, what about that big raid in idaho, that minting place that made the ron paul liberty dollars... I thought it was funny that if you went onto ebay you could easily find rudy giuliani and hillary clinton gold coins for sale... for about a dollar or something. I wish I had the link where the court found the federal reserve note unconstitutional. Perhaps I'll dig it up later.

Ron Paul liberty dollars are going on sale on ebay for... $2000+

CavortingChicken
11-20-2007, 09:47 AM
Oh i know this is insane. I heard ppl were selling their coins for 2k+ and donating the money to the campaign.

Forgot to add this link too

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/

JoeJustJoe
11-20-2007, 04:18 PM
I'd say 1-8 are realities already. It's just a matter of time for 9 & 10.

Aqualad
11-20-2007, 07:07 PM
interesting bill, that one. listen to how it was voted for:

"The vote was held under a suspension of the rules to cut debate short and pass the bill"

Based on the rest of the information(http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1955), I would guess the bill was introduced like this to shorten the time the congressman had to actually discuss the bill(debate was cut out of the process). Obviously looking at the title it sounds like a noble bill.

funeralpudding
11-20-2007, 08:07 PM
The Republicans fool nobody with Ron Paul. He is part of the party that has fucked America at every level imaginable, and apart from the war he lines up with virtually every other stupid backwards stance the Republican Party takes. He is no different from the hypocritical moral majority of the right that wants to put prayer in schools, and his economic policies, like making the Bush tax cuts permanent,CUTTING restrictions to campaign finance, and continuing ludicrous oil subsidies are nothing but a green light for the continued rape of our country.

CavortingChicken
11-20-2007, 09:08 PM
The Republicans fool nobody with Ron Paul. He is part of the party that has fucked America at every level imaginable, and apart from the war he lines up with virtually every other stupid backwards stance the Republican Party takes. He is no different from the hypocritical moral majority of the right that wants to put prayer in schools, and his economic policies, like making the Bush tax cuts permanent,CUTTING restrictions to campaign finance, and continuing ludicrous oil subsidies are nothing but a green light for the continued rape of our country.

Your ridiculous, thats all. Do research.

pinocchio
11-20-2007, 09:28 PM
do grammar research

funeralpudding
11-20-2007, 10:18 PM
Your ridiculous, thats all. Do research.

What an atypical substantive Republican response.

quixoticgoat
11-20-2007, 10:55 PM
karl marx, ftw

about republicans... i know there are cool ones out there. but seriously. fix your party, dudes. nixon? reagan? and the bushies? seriously....... for a bunch of people who claim they want less government control, they certainly want a lot of it

Aqualad
11-20-2007, 10:56 PM
We've been in this partisanship battle about a hundred times before. Do not stereotype.

I think it's been pretty obvious that the people running the strings on the republican side are also on the ones on the democrat side. Why else would everyone be so eager to rethink an antiwar message? And then we find hillary Clinton being advised by a neoconservative. Giuliani sounds less like a republican everyday.

Either way, we really are intellectually empty if we can do no more than quip about partisanship. I don't want to be called either. Let's forget about who is republican and who is democrat for a moment in our lives and let's talk about the issues. Regardless of what the candidates think, what really is the best approach to solving our 9 trillion dollar debt, our immigration problems, and economic issues/foreign policy issues?

Aqualad
11-20-2007, 10:59 PM
karl marx, ftw

about republicans... i know there are cool ones out there. but seriously. fix your party, dudes. nixon? reagan? and the bushies? seriously....... for a bunch of people who claim they want less government control, they certainly want a lot of it

"want" is a really strong word. don't forget that the large government is not the work of conservatives, but neoconservatives, which migrated to the right from the democrat side.
Amazing how the extremes on both side can be after the same thing.

Aqualad
11-20-2007, 11:04 PM
here is a look at some of the main neoconservatives.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html

I don't know why this information comes from this website, but whatever. If you want to know about the ideas themselves, wikipedia is as good as any.

pinocchio
11-20-2007, 11:18 PM
the christian science monitor... really

funeralpudding
11-20-2007, 11:34 PM
Regardless of what the candidates think, what really is the best approach to solving our 9 trillion dollar debt...

Probably NOT Ron Paul's (and the rest of the Republicans) support of making Bush's giveaway to the rich permanent. Or the no-bid profiteering going on in Iraq that's draining our economy. Paul may not support Iraq, but he's all for the "hands-off" Republican approach to corporations and special interests that has thrown away the balanced budget and surplus that Clinton handed to Bush.

jkirkpleasant
11-20-2007, 11:50 PM
i've supported democrats my whole life, but right now, i'm disgusted by them. they are as fake and spineless as any of the major republicans running. i don't believe any of them. the only person running that i do believe is ron paul. i don't agree with everything that he believes in, but when it comes to issues that people are divided over, i.e. abortion, prayer in schools, etc. his idea is that the federal government has no place in instituting those decisions. his main idea, that i like, is that it should be kept local. oh, and he doesn't subsidize anything that i've seen. the whole idea of the government subsidizing anything is contrary to his entire platform.
my point is, i believe the guy. he's sincere and that goes a long way. there needs to be a major shake-up in the US and the more people find out about how best to accomplish that the better. you want change? look to the people who actually would bring it about. kucinich is the only guy on the democratic side who would, but i don't see the ferver behind him that ron paul has. it's really not about the party, it's about the person. lincoln was a pretty good republican.
sorry, i'm going on and on.
my biggest worry is american's personal liberties being taken away. these fascist nazi fuckers in power now need to be stopped.

Aqualad
11-20-2007, 11:57 PM
If you don't want to research the issues, then research the candidates. I doubt you could call the neoconservative approach hands off when it comes to corporations and special interests. Ron Paul has never voted for an unbalanced budget, and returns part of his budget back to congress each year and doesn't accept a pension. He wants to get our troops out of Iraq and most other countries completely and stop fueling both sides of the coin on all the middle east dealings.

I don't see why you keep tacking Bush onto this argument. No one likes what he's done to this country. He and the neoconservatives are running this country into the ground.

edit: obviously speaking to funeral, not kirk :)

Aqualad
11-21-2007, 12:08 AM
kirk is right, I'm kinda getting into the squabble now that I was trying to avoid. The important thing is that Ron Paul is a man of principle. Even if he is pro-life, he will go with the principle and allow the states to decide for themselves. Unlike the other candidates, he has self-imposed restraints on what he can and can't do. He's intelligent, can make the connections on our economy and our warmongering, and is for privacy of the people rather than privacy of the government.

funeralpudding
11-21-2007, 12:59 AM
I don't see why you keep tacking Bush onto this argument. No one likes what he's done to this country. He and the neoconservatives are running this country into the ground.

Uhhhhhhh, I'm tacking Bush on because he's relevant to what you asked. You asked how we can fix the economy, and I said Ron Paul, as well as the rest of the Republican candidates, want to make Bush's tax cuts permanent, which isn't the way to go. You said you wanted to make the debate more specific, so if you want to actually specifically refute anything I said about Paul, I'm willing to listen.

I think Obama is the best, most likely chance of getting a true reformer in office, Clinton simply never stood a chance with me for supporting both the Iraq war and the bullshit talk about Iran and the Patriot Act (as well as her polished double-speak and dancing in the debates), and Kucinich is too radical for the nomination (and should have left the UFO question alone). Obama/Kucinich, Obama/Richardson, Obama/Edwards... or any combination of those would all be combinations that could get this country back on track.

And I do see what your saying, jkirk, I've said as much myself recently and I'm also angry about most Democrats, but their capitulation to the Republican crimes of the last six years is slightly less disgusting than the actual criminals.

Aqualad
11-21-2007, 09:40 AM
My big problem with Obama is how he's slipped so far from his anti-war stance in the beginning. Nowadays he talks about invading pakistan to get osama, and makes no promises of being out of iraq before 2013(after his first term if he were president, obviously). I'm glad he wants to engage in direct talks with iran. But what business do we have with iran? It's part of their international right to seek nuclear energy, and even if they happened to get a nuke in the next ten years, it would hardly be a threat. We stood up to russia who had 40,000 nukes. I find it interesting that we're bullying the most democratic nation in the middle east, too. mahahsudfiug was elected into office, even if he is extreme.


And I do see what your saying, jkirk, I've said as much myself recently and I'm also angry about most Democrats, but their capitulation to the Republican crimes of the last six years is slightly less disgusting than the actual criminals.

This makes it sound like a lesser of two evils argument.

JoeJustJoe
11-21-2007, 09:46 AM
Neocons are former Dems? That's just fucking stupid.

Aqualad
11-21-2007, 10:34 PM
Well? I'm just reporting what is already noted.

Musicalfusion
11-21-2007, 11:04 PM
Im not for or against him(although i do believe hes the sincerest candidate out there, plus hes got the balls to run a campaign off of his ideals) but if ron paul is elected im getting the hell out of the country for a while to see if the gov lets him get his stuff done, ill come back in 6 months if theres no civil war